I know finding refs for games can be challenging at times. But they also need to be accountable and fair while they do ref, and if there is only 1 ref, they will not receive $40, but the normal $20 per ref. I know bad calls will happen, that is not the point of this thread.

So far this season we have seen refs who say "you don't matter, I'm the ref" and other similar things, as well as atrocious stat keeping more often than not. I have noticed some obvious bias in certain situations as well.

What I am suggesting, is payment at the closure of the game. Captains will show the refs they have the money prior to the game, and be expected to pay immediately following the end of the game. In this process, recorded stats will be reviewed by both captains and corrected if necessary . I imagine it will also force the refs to not only be proper and decided on their penalty calling, but to do so with a more positive demeanor that works with the teams on questionable calls during the game.

No, it won't be a perfect system. But I think it will work better than how it is currently. It would help to always have the league manager around for final decisions during games if necessary. Prepaying for services reduces consumer power, and as consumers, we are not getting proper service this season.

Also, a sticky should be made with detailed descriptions of all penalties. Even some refs don't understand certain penalties

In addition to this. How do we make the Refs be accountable when they are wrong? no, I don't mean we thought they made a bad call or something was questionable. I mean if they flat out get a rule wrong or just ignore them all together? This seriously happens and so it is a serious question.

the fee should be 20 flat per ref and teams should adjust by bringing 20 dollars in change. That way, before the game starts and there's only 1 ref, teams only have to give 10 dollars.

More / Better training for the refs, train yourself to know all of the rules as well so you can accurately call them on it.

I think teams should bring two $10s and refs should have a bit of change on them too personally.

Okay well there's two things. 1. Your captain already signed the contract by entering the league and can you really complain? I mean we've all played in the league how long? Im not saying the refs are always bad most of the time they do a great job and I don't normally complain. It's football guys refs get calls wrong all the time look at the nfl. So quit complaining. 2. Pat brought up that the official rule has always been 15 per team when there's only 1 official which is fair since he has to do twice the work. I've refed midget football and basketball for 5 years now and it's always been if you're missing a guy you get part of his share so don't go on about 10 dollars. They're still doing their job and half the others job. Also if you're gonna complain then just go ref the games yourself and do a better job? Enter all the excuses on why you're not gonna ref, now take those excuses and assume everyone else has them as well. Exactly so complain all you want but you can either stop playing or shut up.

Worst logic ever. If you can't get players to ref, then it's time to go to outside sources. This league costs too much to rely strictly on in league sources especially when they aren't there. I paid to play, not to ref. The refs we have are good, we just don't have enough and honestly there are enough douche bags that it has soured some current/former players from reffing anymore. I'd be glad to help recruit outside of the league, if Wyatt is receptive.

Maybe the good refs wouldn't leave if some people stopped trashing them on the trash talk boards.... Just saying.

What the shit are you talking about? The good refs don't get trash talked, because they are GOOD.

Good refs that I can think of:

Dan (90% of the time)
JT (90% of the time now, used to hate his reffing lol)
Mike Prokop when he used to ref
DJ Hladik when he reffed
The rando white kid from Bill Brasky's boys awhile back, don't know his name
Johnny Marsh? was kind of a shit talker but did a solid job
Wyatt
and im sure I'm forgetting plenty. I only talk shit if there is a consistently bad ref, in which case I hope they see the talking and stop reffing

How good or bad at making calls that someone is was not the point of this thread anyway....